Sarah Fejfar 0:00
Your mastermind you have one coming up soon, right?
Jon Tsourakis 0:03
Yes, October 17 18th and 19th.
Sarah Fejfar 0:06
So tell me what's going through your mind right now is you are in the homestretch of the planning. I hate it. I thought it would take us a little bit longer to get this point, John. There, and we're only a few minutes in. Yeah. Excellent. Well, okay, so let's talk about this.
Sarah Fejfar 0:28
How are entrepreneurs like us daring bravely to build a stage? Ditch the sweat pants and step up to the mic? How do we create our own transformative events? So we can get our message out into the world in a bigger way. It's not only profitable, but it's actually something we can be proud of. That's the question. And the answers are inside this podcast. My name is Sarah Fejfar. Welcome to Green Room Central. Today I brought into green room central studios, John Soraka is president of oil via a web Plus app development and marketing agency with offices in Jacksonville and St. Petersburg, Florida. John's also general manager of digital mastermind reacts is a connector for a collective group of agency owners who come together to elevate the industry, their annual mastermind event is powerfully different than than its agency learning from other agencies without the typical guru or coach. John, welcome to Green roofs central studios say hello to linchpin nation.
Jon Tsourakis 1:32
Thank you for having me, hello, linchpin nation, it's a pleasure to be here with you.
Sarah Fejfar 1:37
I want to know what your superpower is, John, when it comes to hosting masterminds? What do you think it is?
Jon Tsourakis 1:43
Sarah Fejfar 1:46
Are you in Tuesd? For the opportunities to network? Is that what gets you going? Or is it watching? Like, the connections that people make when? Because you've curated such a cool group of people that you bring together? What is it? What do you love most about
Jon Tsourakis 2:03
I love getting a lot of people together that discover something where they get these aha moments, I love going, kind of going toe to toe with cynics, and then making them believers if you will, and just like really small things. So yeah, that's something that I I enjoy, and then just not giving up, right, it's just having lots of lots of energy in the right direction can really create some positive things, especially when a lot of people are coming together to learn something. And if they're going to share confidential information, there's a lot of trust that's in there. So that's, that's very energizing. So it brings a lot of enthusiasm
Sarah Fejfar 2:45
out of me. So you're basically creating an arena that allows you to really do all the things that you love, like these, like watching the highs and the turning cynics into believers and kind of cheering people on, they don't give up teaching them new things. Like it's all your favorite things. And essentially, your mastermind is like a container for that.
Jon Tsourakis 3:09
It is I don't know if arena is the best word because that sounds like it's super combative. But it's not. It's a very safe space. But and I don't want it like it's not like a roomful of cynics, where I'm holding up, you know, like religious, you know, icons and whatnot. We're not walking over coals or so marketers are just a bunch of marketers. Right? So. But yeah, it's that it's getting a bunch of people together. And that and everything you said is accurate, except for the maybe the arena combat in part.
Sarah Fejfar 3:42
Got it? Got it. So how do you create a safe space for folks?
Jon Tsourakis 3:47
I think it just starts with language. So first off, it's actually acknowledging what we're there to do. And it's saying it's, you know, one of my predecessors that, you know, started this mastermind would say, it's like, Alright, hey, there's the front of the house of the restaurant where everything looks really pretty. And the tables are set really nice. And then there's the back of the house where it's an absolute mess. There's people sweating all over the place, and they're trying to cook your food and there's burnings happening and everything's running around, said, Alright, we're gonna take everybody into the back of the house, and that's what we you know, but we don't want anybody to judge or you know, tell anybody about what's in the back of our house. So it's really kind of giving something contextual setting a table, if you will, and just asking everything that is said here stays here. And over the last 10 years, I can say I'm a little bit superstitious on the knock on some wood that's happened and there hasn't been one complaint otherwise, and keep reinforcing that right, just saying, Hey, this is confidential and so on and so forth.
Sarah Fejfar 4:48
Because you're all business owners coming together to help kind of share your trade secrets that can help the other business owner get better in their own and So I think you have to create that safety otherwise people are gonna want to hold. Yeah, hold their cards close to their vest. Absolutely. So good. So, your mastermind you have one coming up soon, right?
Jon Tsourakis 5:15
Yes, October 17 18th and 19th.
Sarah Fejfar 5:20
So tell me what's going through your mind right now is you are in the homestretch of the planning. I hate it. I thought it would take us a little bit longer to get this point done. And we're only a few minutes in. Yeah, excellent. Well, okay, so let's talk about this where, because we've talked before about how there is resentment that comes up sometimes and some hatred that comes up, as you're going into this, the planning for an event that you love. And we're what's what, where does it come from?
Jon Tsourakis 6:03
Just things not falling in place. And just all of the little, like excuses and tweaks that may come from, whether it's vendors or little, little quests and things like that. So I think it's more of my personality than anything. That that goes into that it's for like, such an awesome group of people. Like we have just these people that come together, and they share is absolutely amazing. But when it comes to dealing with like, canceled speaker or to canceled speakers, you know, dealing with those types of things are just like really irritating. And especially when you have a contract where you're like, I could sue you. I don't want to do that. Yeah, yeah. So those are just those are the small things that always come up or like the hotel, you know, you go back and forth on certain things, because you want everything to be right. Yeah. And I have a team that really helps out a lot. But I think it's, yeah, I'm not I'm not mister event. We do, you know, one per year, when we try to make it amazing. And we always have really good reviews. And it's it's a great time. But I think right towards the end, it's just all the pressure and all the things that are coming coming to a head with, you know, weeks left, that just kind of burns out a little bit.
Sarah Fejfar 7:16
Yeah, I get it. I lived and breathed the industry for 20 years, I feel I don't know what you're talking about. I bet. I know, our listeners know exactly what you're talking about. And I wonder if I wonder if part of it could be either. So anything that happens in the world, like nothing has meaning and except for the meeting that we place on it. And I think that we have to tell ourselves a different story during this like last 90 days leading up to the event that all of this stuff is happening for us. And you know, we've got this and grace under pressure and all the what do all the things that you have to do in order to stay in the mindset that I am marching towards my favorite thing right now? And yeah, like there's all these problems that come up, because they're just, it's inevitable? It is absolutely, I think it's absolutely inevitable, to march into an event season and have that entire stretch, be like a problem for just the nature of the beast. And I think it is just that we have to put on a different lens. And I wonder if you tell you things, maybe
Jon Tsourakis 8:47
it could be mine is. So I think mine is that maybe the other direction where I try to detach, I'm not attached to the outcome, because the more attached I am to the outcome, the more pressure it creates. That's our interpretation of it, right? So totally along the lines, what you said is like, yeah, looking at like, you know, what is this signaling to us. So that's what I tried to do is like, everything is going to work out. Let me go ahead and move back. And, and make sure it works. Because it's the way to think about an event is all of these things have to culminate. So it works. You have sponsors, you have people that have to show up, you have speakers that have to deliver you have you know, food and all these depending on what you're going to do with your event. And ours is pretty it's not a huge event, but it was a lot of moving pieces. So it's just that it's just alright, and knowing that it all works out. In the end, you're completely, you know, detached and you're just going to do the best that you can kind of just try to find your zone.
Sarah Fejfar 9:45
Yeah, I agree. And then also, you know, you're running a business at the same time as putting on events. It's a it's a balancing act. It really is. It does take a lot in order to commit to do this and yeah, I For everybody who decides to do it, because it's such a gift to those who choose to be in the room? Yeah, it takes something. Yeah, I mean, you're the only one who can gather this, like special group of people in order for, you know, like, the serendipity of whatever is gonna happen in the room to happen. And, like, it's, it is a gift like that you're willing to take this on for all of them. But we gotta get through the slog part. How to rename it? So yeah, it doesn't drain all the life out of us before we get to the finish line. So tell me about your philosophy on guest speakers? Because I know you have some, yeah, they come. It's not just the John show. So what how do you? How do you think about who you want to bring in? And why you would bring them in? And how many you would? Like, what's the balance between you and other people in the mastermind talking? And then guest speakers?
Jon Tsourakis 11:00
Yeah, so we've had, you know, somewhere, it's been like four or five, we've had somewhere it was one, I think it really just depends on what like that theme is of the year, right of what you really want to talk about kind of like, what's the climate that's going on, that's going to affect all of the people I don't like, like gurus or any of that Ness, where somebody is just very dogmatic in their approach to the types of speakers, some of them are industry specific. And then some of them are more broad based, whether it would be something related to let's just say, like accounting and doesn't, that doesn't necessarily mean that the accounting principles or philosophies that this person believes in, are specific to the industry, it's something that would be wide ranging, right, just for for any business owner. And then sometimes we'll bring in agency, you know, specialists that that's all they do is, you know, breathe this stuff all day. And some of those people can kind of get goober rich, but you can, you know, still have a good time.
Sarah Fejfar 12:03
So it's, it's, it's less motivational. And it's more tactical, when you're thinking about who you want to bring in someone who can teach something very specific that they can take back to their businesses and implement right away.
Jon Tsourakis 12:24
Yeah, there's been some motivational people in some of the things we've seen from when some of the motivational people that come in, is like, hey, look, I'm already a raging fire. I don't need any more gas on top of me, I just need to know how to control the fire. Right. So there's that happy balance, and maybe that's speaker, some of the speakers just didn't land properly. But yeah, so this year, it's I think there's gonna be a little bit of motivation. Yeah.
Sarah Fejfar 12:54
How do you think about hospitality when you're planning because I know you do food and stuff, and not everyone kind of wines and dines their guests. But you do a little of that. And so I want to understand how you think about entertaining people as part of the event.
Jon Tsourakis 13:18
If you're trying to make a connection between people, there is no better way to do it than over a controlled meal. And whether that's the breakfasts, the lunches, the dinners, if you figure out a way to coalesce everybody, where they get to share meals and drinks, they will leave having better connections, feeling more connected. I'm sure we've all been to events where you go in, and then you're like, oh, I don't really want to kind of network and you're like, the kind of person looks like and you go through just all those, whatever anxieties that, you know, some people have come from a social standpoint. And what we try to do at our event is make sure that somebody feels connected, and they're having a conversation with somebody at all times, there's no cliques that break off or any of that everybody is this kind of living organism, I think, having amazing restaurants with really good food and fantastic service, and drinks if people want the libations can really bring that out and just Yeah, cuz if you're learning all day, and you're just like, oh, man, you can just have a good time. That's when you're really going to be able to bond with your peers. That's what it's all about as a mastermind, you know, a collective.
Sarah Fejfar 14:27
Yeah, I agree. And I am wondering, do you do anything out of the norm at those meal functions, like is there something that you say or do that you think allows people to connect more deeply than if you know, at some other event,
Jon Tsourakis 14:53
like like bringing like an Elvis impersonator or pretend like it's, oh, we're going on.
Sarah Fejfar 14:59
Do you tell that Um, like do arrange seating? Do you give them questions to talk about? Or do you just make sure that your focus is on the environment? And making sure people feel good with like, Great food, great drinks, environment space, and just that keeps people there.
Jon Tsourakis 15:16
Yeah. And so jump in before we finish the question, but yeah, it's, it's creating the environment. And then also just being a good, you know, Curator when you see somebody that's looking where to sit like, hey, you know, a garbage you go ahead and you know, take take a seat right here. And of course, there's a toast, where you're going to use some communication based on Hey, everybody, you know, thank you so much for joining, and then kind of give a theme to the dinner and you know, talk about people getting to know each other better. That kind of scenario. Yeah. But I haven't tried assigned seating it. I haven't, I guess, because the need hasn't been there. But if it did show up, then absolutely. I think that would be a great idea. I'd be interested to see how that would land on some people.
Sarah Fejfar 16:00
Yeah. Some people might be open to it and others not. Yeah, like, I want to sit here. Right? Yeah, people like me who are introverted and more shy in a social environment might might think it was fabulous, because you're giving me instructions on where to go and how to fit in. And it might, you know, crack me open a little bit easier. But perhaps someone like you, it might be my credit my style. Okay, so I love that philosophy on hospitality, I think we're definitely aligned. And I love to provide able to provide all of the meals and such for people and really kind of curate what that experience is going to be like, instead of having people go off on their own, and try and create it themselves. I just am big fan. So how, how many days do you do your event? Two and a half, two and a half. And if you tried other like durations and found this to be the best or is just this has always worked
Jon Tsourakis 17:11
has always worked? Yeah.
Sarah Fejfar 17:15
The so you're in the marketing space you serve marketing professionals. And what I'm curious about is how that's informed the marketing of the event itself and getting people to show up. So it's not a whole lot of thing that you're doing. That's really working.
Jon Tsourakis 17:38
Um, you know, if you asked me like six months ago, I'd like oh, yeah, I'd be pounding my chest. But when you're like in the thick of it, and you're in the ditch, you're like, No, we're taking on fire right now. Nothing's working. Now. It's the main thing is it's a community, we got a really strong community, right. So all of our members, this is this is an event for them. And this is the I'm gonna use some of your language, the linchpin of our mastermind, right, so we stay in contact via calls and resumes, rather and this but this is like the real big connective tissue that pulls everybody together. So in marketing it, it's just marketing it to our members. And in some, and this year, we've tried a few different things just looking for for new members. Because when you have a bunch of people that are learning from each other, there's a natural thing where you need to pull in new blood, right? So it's, there's fresh ideas and keep that so that's what we've done. And not everybody is applicable to the group. It's, it's not like it's kickball, and some people are getting picked blast. It's just you got to be a right fit agency size, and so on and so forth.
Sarah Fejfar 18:50
Yeah, yeah. So that's pretty cool that you have you have a membership, you're going to fill the event with the membership, but then that means that your job throughout the years to get the right new members in so that when it comes time for the event, that you have a large enough and the right people in the membership that would then show up for the in person and just be the right mix in the room for that mastermind.
Jon Tsourakis 19:21
Sarah Fejfar 19:24
So you talk about how you're able to differentiate in the marketplace and in a crowded space. And how do you think that that skill serves you when you're bringing new members into your membership? What What are your using as most points of differentiation? I
Jon Tsourakis 19:56
think it's the main one is just shared from experience. There isn't a set book or, or rule sets, like a lot of our, like a lot of the other groups have like, Oh, this is the philosophy. And there's some really great ones. And I'm friends with some of the others that run these groups. But it's kind of like this is the way and it has that kind of, like, Guru feel. And I just And that, to me is just like, if you, if you want to be the most popular kid or something like this is what you do. I just, it's kind of like, it's just not my thing. It's I don't like that. So I'm not like that at all. I'm just another agency that's under this learning from everybody else, right? Yeah, I love that mindset. And that's, that's what we create. So everybody in there is equal, everybody in there can contribute or not contribute to the same extent. And then having that just organically, everybody grows together. And I've been in this group and doing it now running it for years, but I've been in it for like 10 years. And it's just amazing what people can just learn from each other just by sharing from experience. And that's what it is, there isn't a Oh, hey, this is what you everybody needs to do this type of marketing automation tool, or you have to do this, there's, you don't have that homogenization. And I think when you have that, you realize you are unique, you have strengths in your own specific area, and you're doing tons more thing, right, then you are wrong. And you really get to polish yourself out by just having experience with others. And seeing that, yeah, you might not have to niche, like one of these other agencies that that does, and focuses only on hotels, you know, you don't have to niche vertically, you can niche horizontally, and you can just do you know, SEO or content marketing, or whatever those things are, I think it gives you that broad spectrum. And you'll literally meet competitors, this is the craziest thing, I have a competitor here in my market that I lose to about half the time. And it's just crazy. And we do things completely different. But we will go against each other on these accounts. And it's just amazing. Because I know like, Ah, this is gonna be what he does is more attractive to this person. I should probably throw in my hat right now. But not and yeah, there's just a lot of love that comes from that.
Sarah Fejfar 22:14
So you're talking about competitors showing up at the same events? Yes. And how do you get them? I mean, I know we talked about safety earlier, but how do you get them to share, like be willing to share when you do compete for similar business?
Jon Tsourakis 22:35
I think once you have, this is the other thing too dealing with business owners and and what you do, there is no special sauce, right? You're not Steve Jobs, for the most part, you might have something that's a little bit unique, but at the end of the day, it's it's usually your processes, your blood, sweat, your tears, your passion and your culture that it's going to get you across the finish line. And when business owners see this, they realize like, okay, there's more gained from sharing and receiving than there is from just trying to keep everything inside. So once they they let their guard down and they start sharing and people start contributing. That's when a lot of the magic happens. But it's just that, like, I hate saying it like this, but it's just like you're not that special. What you're doing is not that unique. Yeah, I mean, it's just it's not and, but if you you know reach out to your others, you'll you'll figure out how you can be a huge contributor and how you can be a huge gainer. And it's just this perpetual positive energy that gets created. That's that's good for everybody.
Sarah Fejfar 23:47
So good. Why why did you decide to keep this in person and not not go virtual?
Jon Tsourakis 23:57
There's I don't know if it comes down to like bio rhythms and like pheromones or something. But there's there's a lot more I believe gained in in person events, right, where you're in there. There's just like a certain energy. And I think the other thing too, is our audience is business owners. These are people that lie to themselves all the time, because they're overly optimistic and are like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna sit for this virtual event. And I'm just going to pay attention all the time, that they're gonna be checking their emails and slacks and text messages and doing that. And I think there's more of a commitment when you're in the room, and a social, like a social driver, like okay, I don't want to be sitting here on my computer typing the whole time. I actually want to be here and present. So it's, it's more effective that way. And how did I learn that myself? I'm just I'm the worst virtual event. Attendee I think there's ever been.
Sarah Fejfar 24:49
I can buy that. Yeah. I'm the same way. And I'm a huge fan of events, and I can see how I act differently if it's virtual. versus in person. 100%. Yeah, well, so I love that you're, you're creating that in person so that they do. They can be it can be immersive, it can be just like a bigger connection opportunity, you are giving them the excuse to, like, leave their put their business to the side and like take this time for themselves to learn, connect, grow all that good stuff. Exactly. Yeah. Do you mind if I ask you a few rapid fire questions?
Jon Tsourakis 25:38
Yeah, long as you promise that they'll make me look bad. Yes.
Sarah Fejfar 25:41
I was curious about all right. When you're, when you're the person who's talking at your event, what do you have anything that you say to yourself before you take the stage or while you're on stage?
Jon Tsourakis 25:57
Mmm hmm. You know, I think just, it's just positive thoughts. I don't know if it's something specific. And then there's something I always tell myself, it's just do not get attached to the outcome. Because if I do, then I'm like, I just I get I get stressed and anxious. So it's just all right. The other thing too, is I guess I say this almost when I end any call is, you know, and I tell myself this all the time. Have some fun.
Sarah Fejfar 26:23
Yeah, those are great reminders. So easy to take our minds, like you said, like you're hating the process right now. It's so easy to get out of the mindset of like, why we're doing it, and how much we love what we're going after. And it's important to do that even in the moment when nerves or something that had gone wrong, you know, that that day would possibly get you your mind off of? You know, your A game?
Jon Tsourakis 26:58
Yeah, like last was it last year? I think it was last year, like all the stuff that we ordered, like, you know, like, you know, journals and pens and water, like the gifts that you give people than the really nice stuff. None of it had arrived. And oh, no, yeah. And everybody's blaming like, COVID logistics. And I'm like, Look, guys, like, this stuff was in this country. Like, I don't know, like, what it was like, where is it? And nobody could find it for like, the first day in the hotel didn't know. And then it like, magically just showed up. And like I asked the hotel did you bring it here? Like, No, we didn't bring it here, like up it. Nobody knew. But it got there. And I was happy. So yeah, those are the things you can't let them get stuck in your craw or like, oh, it's gonna it's gonna magically.
Sarah Fejfar 27:39
Exactly, and yeah, stuffs gonna come up during the event. And you gotta keep put blinders on, especially when you're the host or key presenter. So, what's your best tip for filling the event is relentless action?
Jon Tsourakis 28:01
Yeah, it is. I wish there was something more than that, just because here's the thing, you're gonna press people. So like, let's say you have a closing event, you're like, hey, sign up for next year, you offer a discount, you can fill up a certain amount there, then you offer your early bird, you're gonna fill up a certain amount there, then you're gonna hit this other patch where there's like, Oh, it's too early, I don't know. And that's going to be your hardest thrust where you're going to spend 80% of your time just trying to get your last 25 to 30% of your of your people. And that I believe just takes relentless action.
Sarah Fejfar 28:37
Do you use? What's the strategy that you use? I think you try and you tried webinars in the past.
Jon Tsourakis 28:46
So you got to see you could do webinars. Yeah. So we'll use email, we'll find like, hey, these, these are people that we would think would be a good fit, because that's the other thing too, like we shoot ourselves in the foot, they have to be a good fit. It's not like because you can get somebody in there that's just like, oh, this is my this is my lead group and I just want to sell it all people are like, Okay, how do you let you know, salesy Sam in there and he's just trying to you know, sell everybody so you have to be very careful. So we'll select certain ones have conversations with which is also interesting because some people like the get on this I don't know but this like I guess it just kind of like strokes their ego in such a way to like, well, if you want me in this group, you should pay me to be and you're not a fit, alright, we're done. If you're gonna act like that, that's not who we want. So well, I won so many awards, and it's like, well, good for you. Like this is about contributing, sharing. So it's just it's a very interesting approach to to go about it and it's kind of like you're protecting a flock because you want everybody to have a good time and and you have to be selected based on certain graphics that are all just business related, where they have to match up and yeah, But it works out.
Sarah Fejfar 30:01
I love that you're being selective because the serendipity of what happens in the room doesn't happen. If you just let everybody in like that the magic is gone. So I love that you're being selected. And I'm wondering, so then does that mean you're having a lot of or someone on your team is having a lot of one on one sales conversations to get a hold to sign up?
Jon Tsourakis 30:23
Oh, yeah. And just kind of, you know, it's like applying for something and seeing if you're a fit. I remember I was at a leadership conference one time. And speaking of letting everybody in there, they let in this lady that like, whatever they said, she would like scream like, yes, like we were at a football game. Right. And it was so distracting. And it turns out, she was she was hammered. This lady was like three sheets to the wind at like, 10am, you know, on like, a Thursday morning. And that's what and I always go back to that. And I think about that, like, Okay, we want to protect it as much as we can to make sure that everybody's in there. But yeah, to your question. Yeah, there's a lot of one on one conversations, for sure.
Sarah Fejfar 31:01
Are you doing anything at the event to fill the next event? Like, are you taking registrations before people leave?
Jon Tsourakis 31:09
At the end? Yeah, we offer like a pretty big discount for the next year's event. And yeah, we get a pretty good bump for sales on that.
Sarah Fejfar 31:18
Good. What's the your favorite moment at events that at these events?
Jon Tsourakis 31:26
You know, there's at the end, when everybody's talking about what they gained from it. And like all we call them golden nuggets. I didn't come up with that term as another gentleman in the group did. It's like, yeah, so those are like your takeaways. And then when you're hearing like, what everybody took away, and knowing that they're going to go back and make their business or their life better in some way. That's a huge, that's a huge win. Because some of them are like, I didn't even hear that, or that's what they got from that. And that to me is just so cool.
Sarah Fejfar 31:51
Right? Yeah. So do you have a session then at the end of every mastermind, where you do going around the room and asking for their? Their biggest takeaway or
Jon Tsourakis 32:05
exactly what we do? Yeah,
Sarah Fejfar 32:06
yeah. Do you start with a round robin to with? Like, a specific question, what do you ask
Jon Tsourakis 32:15
whether you introduce yourself? So we'll go around the room. And everybody really quickly introduces themselves with like three questions like who they are, where they're from, and our agency and I think actually a fourth, like, what do they want to get out of the group? And, yeah, that kind of gives you something as a conversation starter, if you remember it, and you're like, oh, yeah, that person, you know, wanted to learn more about filling whatever that blank is. And, you know, you can kind of break the ice with that.
Sarah Fejfar 32:40
I do love starting with what do you need help with? Question? Because, yeah, it? You know, you're not looking for answers in the moment. But there'll be somebody in the room who's like, Wait, I've already slayed that dragon.
Jon Tsourakis 32:55
Oh, yeah. And I love that.
Sarah Fejfar 32:56
Let me help you with that.
Jon Tsourakis 32:58
Yeah. It's the power from experience just sharing from it. Yeah.
Sarah Fejfar 33:03
What's, what's the best thing about hosting your own mastermind?
Jon Tsourakis 33:09
Just all the people you get to meet, you get to meet all people from all shapes, sizes, colors, and backgrounds. And there's just so much to be gained from differences. Yeah. And I think that's, that's, that's really cool. Because I love people that have a completely antithetical philosophy than I do on something. And just understanding their thinking behind it like, oh, wow, that's completely logical. And that makes sense. But still choosing my idea, or vice versa, or having them change my mind on something. I love that. And I get to, you know, meet all these people and doing that. And they get to meet each other too.
Sarah Fejfar 33:46
Can you draw a direct line from something you learned in the mastermind and business growth? In your own business? Yeah, you don't have to do this. Like this is like a, almost like a service. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Running this. Master the membership, and then I'm just another agent.
Jon Tsourakis 34:09
Yeah, exactly. And this isn't this isn't my, you know, full time job. Yeah, so one is, so there's this. So in the agency space, there's value based pricing versus hourly pricing. So I've experimented with it. So value based pricing is let's say that it's discriminant pricing, depending on you know, how much you think the person can afford something or the value is what you'll charge. So I used to have that thinking, and I tried it. And it was just it was it was difficult for me. And then by seeing others in the group that were hourly base, which is a more traditional model. It's it's way more scalable. So just switching over to that was something that was big and it was it was easier and then just literally charging hours and there's so many arguments for why you would charge value based pricing. But the thing is, at the end of the day, everybody tracks Time Time is money, people get paid for that. And then when you build that end, you can have 1000 2000 employees. When you get into value based pricing, it gets so muddy and messy and people make mistakes. And if you feel like maybe you're lying or overcharging, well, you remove all that. And that's something that I gained from the group. And we're able to, you know, scale by implementing.
Sarah Fejfar 35:20
So cool, but there's
Jon Tsourakis 35:21
so many others in the group that are value based pricing. So this is constant. This is one of the little debates. It's like who's right or who's wrong. So and I love that. It's just like, okay, that's, that's you, that's your belief, and we can still, you know, sit down and have, you know, a really good steak.
Sarah Fejfar 35:35
Yeah. What are you reading right now, John?
Jon Tsourakis 35:39
What am I reading? I'm still I'm slogging through Ben Franklin's autobiography, and I'm reading the book legacy. Yeah, I'm almost done with that. And a familiar with legacy. No. Okay. Are you familiar with the All Blacks the New Zealand Rugby team? Yes. Okay. So this is a guy that like sat down, interviewed the team and built out essentially their principles and tenets that makes that team so successful. And it's a fantastic book, it comes down to like culture and integrity. It's, it's really good. And the cool thing is we do this as a book club. So as at our agency, Oba, we, we take our leadership team, and then we all read a chapter a week, and then we get together every two weeks and talk about that chapter. And what's the impact on us personally? And what's the impact on our business?
Sarah Fejfar 36:26
Jon Tsourakis 36:27
Yeah, guess where we learned that in our mastermind group?
Sarah Fejfar 36:33
So good. John, what have you got going on right now that we should know about? And where should linchpin nation find you?
Jon Tsourakis 36:41
I'm just planning the events. The I don't know whether you guys want to know about that or not. But it is a lot of fun. Yeah, and I run an agency or yoga. But if you guys want to find me, I love meeting new people having a conversation. Please don't try to sell me something now. All right. So I mean, I got so many people that are already doing that. But in any event, you can reach me, you can shoot me an email John [email protected] You can find me and connect with me on LinkedIn. My name is spelled J O N. Last name is T's and Thomas isn't Sam, o u r e k is John Serkis, the one and only
Sarah Fejfar 37:16
on LinkedIn, we will link that up in the show notes. Thank you, John, for being here. It's been a pleasure. I always enjoy the conversation and wish to announce.
Jon Tsourakis 37:28
Thank you, Sarah, thank you so much for having me. It's always a pleasure, really appreciate it. And by linchpins, thank you for sharing some time.
Sarah Fejfar 37:35
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